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Van D Laan (77th FS)
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:05 am

About that healthcare problem,

HOW can people EXPECT to pay low taxes at all? The entire country is fed by taxes and so is the health care. And especially the health care is getting more expensive every month, thanks to a simple biological problem. Remember the sweet babyboom in 1945 - 1955? Very cute all those babys but look at them now. Aged 55 - 65 years old they are all having problems that come with that age. Lungdesease, heartproblems, tumors, etc.. Fixing those (which the human tends to do) costs LOTS of money. You have to realize that such operations could cost over 50.000 euro's. Who is going to pay for that? It's off all the health care taxes that we've paid for our entire life.
So imagine if we all need an operation by the age of 65, which costs are on average 20.000 euro's. How much on health care taxes would we need to pay in our life? At least 20.000 euro's!
And now with the babyboom aged like that, the other agegroups, including us, has to pay for their operations. So how could you expect to have health care run on any other way?

Also thanks to our health care people with genetic diseases have a greater chance of survival and of getting offspring. You see that this offspring is very likely to have that genetic disease aswell? 100 years ago 98% of all the families could get children. Now thats only 95% and declining fast. Health care might save lives now, but in the future it's getting problems with its own life savings. And even that is playing a roll now already

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Fay (77th FS)
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:01 am

In my opinion, if you have the money to take care of it (in private health care) Good, if you dont, that is life (to a degree). I know it sounds harsh, but if he levels the healthcare, and I have the money to get a major operation TODAY, but i get put on a 6 month waiting list and get very sick or die, is that fair? maybe from a statistical stand point, but thats not how it is supposed to work over here lol.

Not to mention the fact that there will be different levels of coverage in this new system, so the poor still get pretty shitty coverage, and ANYONE who has a government job is automatically put on a decent plan.

Add on top of all of that the time line for coverage that they want to pass with it:


Babies and people over the age of 60 wont get the same treatment as people in their prime. The government is basically going to play god and chooses who lives and who dies. That completely defies the constitution on so many levels.



"All the perplexities, confusions, and distress of America, arise, not from the defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from a want of honor or virtue, so much as the downright ignorance of the nature of the coin, credit, and circulation."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Fay (77th FS)
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:24 am

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html <- Just in case anyone wants to cite lol.

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Van D Laan (77th FS)
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:36 am

The government chooses those who survive, and of course the government chooses those that still can WORK for them so that they can pay taxes again. From an economical point of view it's the best. Also at very young age having such problems as this is not very fortunate, and very likely to get simular or other problems later on, so I see why they don't whish to treat those.
But in my opinion the health care should draw the line, not based on age only, but on reproductive and fitness rate of the person also. What that means is whether it contains diseases derived from genetic malfunction/disorder, and the likelyhood of it to get offspring (that is furtile). Still the others will be helped, but be denied to get offspring. This way within a few generations, our spieces will be back on 98% furtile offspring rate and there are less sick to worry about. Meaning more energy in research, development.. etc..
Because that is what people are generally working too.

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Wilson (77th FS)
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:16 pm

yay I was like...lololol gasoline and boom

I made asplosion.

Just wondering.

Why are we helping Hatti right now. We asked them to become a common-wealth, they denined, yet we spending all this money fixing them up right away.

BUTTTTT It took us like a half year to get New Orleans out from under the fucking water.

I say we could be spending money elsewhere (nothing against my Hattians, just saying). America is known for being like, oh ur building got knocked down? lets build it back up but make it 20 times better and 10 times more expensive. What? Yeah I know that a whole town is underwater, what? No! they can do it themselves...why?...it..uh...stimulates the economy..yeah yeah....

what could we spend money better on?

Maybe leaving this kid the fuck alone
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/nyregion/14watchlist.html?no_interstitial

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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:06 pm

Also, deciding who lives and who dies in the American healthcare system depends on how much money this particular individual has.

Which might be good from an economical point of view, but any one who isn't high class or in the top of the middle classes, is basically screwed when they get any form of illness. Which in turn has as a consequence that the largest part of American families will not have enough money to cover their medical bills if one member of their families becomes seriously ill.
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:49 pm



Never gets old

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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:13 pm



phoenix, check out that reply video on the youtube page it's self. Its really good.
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:50 pm

Wow that is outstanding! Definately one of our main problems today, I'm glad he summed it up there.

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Wilson (77th FS)
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:58 pm

YAY I LOVE HIM

nice video bowers...by chance have the 2nd half?

(I like founding fathers btw... Very Happy my boy Handcock and his brother Footpussy)

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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:34 pm

I enjoy studying 18th Century America. I never liked Hancock much, he was more of the popular guy and pushed for alot of mistreatment of British Civilians and Royalist.

And hey, I'll be the first to admit that the way health care is run right now and the way it opporates is pretty terrible. But I do not support Social Medicine. America was founded for the freedom of choice.

Those choices are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Of these 3 things you can classify other rights such as the freedom of speech, press, religion and so on.

I will not let the government take one of those choices away from me. Life is about choices and priorities. My main priority is to raise and family and take care of it in any way I can. Because of this priority I have made the choice to pursue College and a good paying career. This is a major choice that too many US Citizens do not take.

Now I want a good career and a College education so that I may take care of my sick and injured kids like a good father would. If I have saved a certain amount of money away for emergencys to pay for the best doctor possible I SHOULD HAVE THAT RIGHT OF CHOICE. Social Medicine does not give you the choice to go to the best available doctor.

No, what needs to happen is establish a minimum Health Plan for those who can not afford Health Insurance. This will take care of the MINORITY amount of US citizens without health insurance. and no, this health plan will not meet the needs of every disease and illness, but honestly SHOULD WE SETTLE FOR WHAT IS GIVEN TO US? Its like asking should everyone live off Food Stamps? NO! People should have that desire to afford better health insurance. But today, this MINORITY wants to just settle for the minimum and well all I can say is that is just LAZY and UNAMERICAN!

The Health Care for our senior citizens is a completely other topic all together and I agree that Senior Citizens should either recieve more help from the government or a mandatory reduction on medical expenses.
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:56 pm

I dont like him ethier. I said that strictly for the joke.

Washington was a crazy bad-ass tho.

and I agree. I like being able to CHOOSE if I wanta pay this or that or sell at this price and not havethe government say its now 2.50...THOUSAND dollars for bread...

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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:14 pm

Brown won the seat! Thank you god.

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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:54 pm

that good? I wasnt paying attention do the election

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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:10 am

ye ye scotty brown reppin MA
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:23 am

Well Bowers, i think you're wrong on the point that as soon as you have 'social medicine' you can't see the best doctors available. If you have the money, you can always go to some fancy private clinic.

Sounds like you're assuming you're gonna succeed in everything you hope that's gonna happen, what if something goes wrong? what if YOU get ill? then what? thats right, social medicine. It exists to serve as a lifeline when something goes wrong.

And about waiting lines: This sounds harsh, but you got to live with it. Hospitals have a certain capacity and if there are more people requesting health care than there is health care available, ofcourse there will be waiting lines. Sucks, but that's life right? like someone before me said, dont remember who and when...cant be bothered to look it up lol

And wilson: what does the pricing of goods have to do with anything? If its not produced by the government, government doesnt have to say shit about the pricing of it. If it happens (over here) its because of standards coming from the European Union for the sake of evening prices throughout Europe for equal competition, not the Dutch Government.
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:13 am

Hoogerdijk (77th FS) wrote:
Well Bowers, i think you're wrong on the point that as soon as you have 'social medicine' you can't see the best doctors available. If you have the money, you can always go to some fancy private clinic.

Yes, but you have to pay alot more for it in a social medicine country for this, b/c you dont have established health insurance companies. Where I live I paid $30 to see the best specialist for broken bones in the city i live in (Dallas). This is all because my dad gets health insurance that his company HAS to supply him with. If America turned to social medicine at this time those Health Insurance Companies would go under b/c they can not compete with free health care.

Hoogerdijk (77th FS) wrote:
Sounds like you're assuming you're gonna succeed in everything you hope that's gonna happen, what if something goes wrong? what if YOU get ill? then what? thats right, social medicine. It exists to serve as a lifeline when something goes wrong.


I plan on working for the rest of my life. With a good education, I know I will at the least get a job that offers health care and benifits (Hell the job I had in High School provided Health care and benifits.) This means that at age 17 I was able to have health insurance to take care of myself and a family if I had one at the time. With this minimum health insurance that my company supplied me, I was able to visit my doctor to take care of any illness for a payment of $30. If I need drugs, I can go to Wal-Mart and get most prescription drugs for $3-$10. Thats something you cant read or hear on CNN! If I work the rest of my life, I'll be just fine on my own. I dont need the government to take care of me, not while I am working...

Hoogerdijk (77th FS) wrote:
And about waiting lines: This sounds harsh, but you got to live with it. Hospitals have a certain capacity and if there are more people requesting health care than there is health care available, ofcourse there will be waiting lines. Sucks, but that's life right? like someone before me said, dont remember who and when...cant be bothered to look it up lol


Look the reason yall have Social Medicine is b/c yall have always had it, ever since europe recovered from WW2. Europe turned to Socialism, NOT COMUNISM... there is a big difference for my American friends. Socialism was much more effective for countries trying to rebuild almost everything they had. And hey! it worked for them.

What we have in America works, and we like it. Are there some problems right now with it? YES! but that doesn't mean that we have to get rid of it! Changes to the health care are needed but dont throw it out. It still works!
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:46 am

I can see your point in the first 2 statements. at this stage it just comes down to opinion i guess...im just not happy with the way the 'less fortunate' dont have anything or very little to rely on as far as i know. And thats the good thing about socialism. strong shoulders can take a little more load for the ones with less strong ones.

And Europe turned socialist? maybe for your standards.
Out of 27 different governments since the second world war only 5! were formed with a left-wing party as the winner of the elections. That is as far as Holland goes. I dont know about the rest of Europe, but as far as i know other countries arent more socialist then us.
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:53 pm

Generally those who are less fortunate can pull their asses out of the fire if they try in America (Not saying all, but most).

Half of the people on wealth fair just collect money and dont even try to better themselves.

What makes america so great is that a person born with not a penny to their name can become the next multi millionaire if they try.

Its the "American Dream"


Im sorry, but why should the people who succeed in life have to compinsate for those who (and this si steriotypically of course) dont try and live off the system?

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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:24 pm

Yea i agree fay, i know half a dozen people who fiddle the system to get benefits, or just cba to work. NEWS FLASH! get off your arse and hop on your bike and find one!

In england atm we have labour govt which is more of a socialist government, but its failing and probably be conservative govt in the next general election in april time, which is more right wing.
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:15 pm

Hooger, I in no way said that europeans are socialist. Just the fact that for health care and other things (I'm not an expert in the Modern European Governments So I'm sorry if it feels like I'm trying to be.)

I am just stating the fact that from what I have read and heard from lectures in class is that European adopted Socialist like departments in their government to help its citizens from hard times during the 1940s and 50s.

I have nothing against that change in that era. And b/c of that change the people have grown accustume to it, just like americans are used to our health care system.

At this time in our country's seccession people are out of work (roughly 12%) Most of these people do not have health inssurance because they do not work. Some of these people do have health insurance because they are between jobs and recieved for a small period (2-3 months ussually) Health care from their prior employer.

In these situations I believe that the government should take more steps to help these citizens out if they are ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR A JOB. I just dont think the people who can afford health care should have to give up their health inssurance and settle for the governments.
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:15 pm

Sorry for misunderstanding you there bowers Wink

Yeah there are people sitting on their ass doing nothing, living on government funding. I think the government should more actively check their activity in job searches and take action if they dont (forced labor etc.)

Btw Fay: getting from a penny to being a multi-miljonair? excuse my language but wooptiefuckingdoo! id say its just as likely to happen here!

(in a bit of a hurry so its a bit short Razz)
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:19 am

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3973826/john-stossel-on-obamas-first-year excellent examples of the president DIRECTLY contradicting himself in videos of him saying it, not people interpreting it.

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Wilson (77th FS)
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PostSubject: Re: Politcal thread   Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:28 pm

hmm let me use my naive knowledge to pull a statment outa my ass:

"Wtf is all this right wing and left wing stuff? Birds have two wings and hey, they can fucking fly." -Me.

yeah.

I agree with the whole u can make it in america if u TRY, b/c its true. I have a job at publix as a part-time minor. I get health care and fucking dental. so...yeah!

My dad worked 20 years of his life to the best of his ability and has able to survive the last 7 years without a job at the age of 50 atm. So thats an example of u know, not failing at life.

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