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 Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?

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Van D Laan (77th FS)
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PostSubject: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:22 am

I was wondering up to what level were the Lockhead fighter designers inspired by the Dutch Fokker G.I
Here are some pictures.







Wasp engine planes: 10 ready for service in may 1940 (out of 25 which were ordered by spain)
Mercury engine planes: 23 ready for service in may 1940 (out of 36 ordered)

First flight of the Fokker G.I: 16th march 1937
Length: 10,30 meters (Wasp); 10,89 meters (Mercury)
Wingtip to wingtip: 16,65 meters (Wasp); 17,16 meters (Mercury)

Armament:
Mercury: 8x M36 Browning 7.9mm machineguns (nose), 1x M36 Browning rear gunner.
Wasp: 4x M36 Browning 7.9mm machineguns (nose), 1x M36 Browning rear gunner.

Cruise speed: Mercury; 356 km/h. Wasp; 322 km/h
Top speed: Mercury; 475 km/h. Wasp; 434 km/h
Top speed at diving; 644 km/h.

The X-2 plane that you see is the prototype, it's equipped with a less reliable and powerfull engine (Hispano Suiza engine). The supercharger of this engine exploded in a test run, nearly destroying the entire prototype. Standard planes were equipped with Pratt & Whitney Wasp engines (ordered by spain, 25 units) and the Bristol-Mercury engines of 830hp each (ordered by the Dutch airforce, 36 units).
Initially the Fokker G.I would get British Rolls Royce Krestel engines, but the English government wouldn't allow the Dutch.

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Last edited by Van D Laan (77th FS) on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:18 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Patton (77th FS)
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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:28 am

wauw so we had a plane with good guns!!

looks a lot to the Focke Wulf 189 though

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Van D Laan (77th FS)
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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:32 am

No it doesn't, the Focke-Wulf Fw 189 was a reconnaissance/light bomber aircraft. The Fokker G.I was a heavy fighter (which could also carry a load of 400 kilo's on bombs). So their actual designs may look-alike, they are designed for a different purpose. Also the G.I was already in the air when the Fw 189 was being designed yet.

FW-189 design started in april 1937, first flight in july 1938
P-38 design started in february 1937, first flight in january 1939
G.I. design started in 1936, first flight in march 1937

*Also, the Fokker G.I.s still airworthy (not much, atleast 1) captured by the Germans were used as training aircraft for the Bf-110 crews. Just because it's designed to fit the same picture. Heavy fighter/recon/light bomber.

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Last edited by Van D Laan (77th FS) on Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:09 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:30 pm

Here are some additional pictures, just because I've fallen in love with this plane.

Some painting showing the aircraft weaponsystems


What game is this?


Fokker G.I. crashlanded


Another crashland? With the pilot. The rear thick plastic window cover is removed for the pilot + gunner to bail out. Also when going down and not being able to crashland this would be their quick way out

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Patton (77th FS)
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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:33 pm

I gess the game is Birds of prey or Combat flight simulator 3

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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:44 pm

G-1 of 3JaVA during evening flight


Fokker G-1 302 prior to the war


Fokker 302 after the war, crashland after 2 airkills and 1 Ju-52 damaged.


G-1 330 crashlanding after taking down 2 German aircraft


1937 prototype version


Fokker G-1 at the aircraft show in France. 1936. The G-1 got because of its twin boom design and 8 forward fixed machineguns a lot of attention. 26 planes were ordered by Spain.


Dutch G-1 313


G-1 342 was captured by the Germans after making only one flight patrol.

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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:59 pm



This rare film shows the Fokker G-1 prototype X-2, flown by the Chech tespilot Mares at march 31 1937. Newsitem by the Dutch Polygoon (cinema) journaal. No proper sound.

Heavily armed with eight Browning FN32 machine guns in the nose and a modified Lewis machine gun for the observer, the Fokker G-1 was similarily armed as the Spitfire Mk.I. It even outgunned the Bf-109E at the time and performed better than the comparable Bf-110.

In the first hours of the Dutch army's five-day struggle against the Nazi blitzkrieg, a considerable number of the operatable Fokker G-1's was destroyed on the ground by Nazi bombers. Sixteen Fokker G-1s were able to get airborne and subsequently shot down at least thirteen German aircraft. Besides that they also strafed ground targets such as German troop movements near the heavily fought battlefield of the Grebbeberg.

After a mere five days of fighting, the surviving Fokker G-1s were captured and used by the Germans as training aircraft for twin-engined fighters such as the Bf-110. However, one Fokker G-1 manned by a Dutch crew, was able to escape to England. Sadly, the plane was left to rot outside the Miles Aircraft Company factory to test the weather influences on the wooden structure of the plane.

Unfortunatly none of these marvellous aircraft survived the war. Its memory however is cherished by Dutch aircraft enhousiasts. The Fokker G-1 Foundation was founded in 1997 to obtain as much information, both historical an technical, about this plane as possible. This dedicated group op people is building an exact flying 1:1 replica of the Fokker G-1!

Learn more about this unique aircraft at their website http://www.fokkerg-1.nl

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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:02 pm



In this video you can clearly see our advanced AAA systems. Of course 90% of all our airkills are due to AAA. Especially the low altitude slow flying junkers 52 were nice targets. Each containing 20 fallschirmjägers, it was propably very fun to be gunner. Don't mind the rest of the video, it's badly put together and almost all footage is not during wartime (D.XXI take off is not during war time for example).

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Hoogerdijk (77th FS)
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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:53 pm

Video of that AA reminds of a story i posted on the 45th's website when i was member for a short time. Its a story of one of my relatives (brother of my late grandmother i think). He was with the AAA defense.

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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:14 pm

Wauw Hooger, that's quite a story. I remember reading some article that if the Germans tried to cross the afsluitdijk, we had frigrates waiting to shoot them off that dyke one by one. I would so want to have seen that happen Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:57 pm

awesome story hoog

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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:07 am

What books did you read by the way? I might order them aswell Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:37 am

Was about 2/3 years ago that i read them, dont recall the titles, think id have to see the covers to remember. i have to go to the library to find that out, but maybe ill come across it on the internet, though i doubt that, just checked 44 pages worth of books on bol.com and google doesnt help me a lot either.

now we're talking about books anyway, i really enjoyed reading those of Donald R. Burgett, an american paratrooper who was with the 101st, going into normandy, holland, the ardennes and the push into germany. biography style books, really really good.

http://www.bol.com/nl/c/engelse-boeken/donald-r-burgett/175587/index.html

- Edit, think ive struck gold: Opmars naar Rotterdam written by E.H. Brongers.
series contains 3 books:
*De luchtlanding (316 pag.)
*Van Maas tot Moerdijk (324 pag.)
*De laatste fase (301 pag.)

I might be wrong though, but it really seems these are the ones. If you want ill go check Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:17 pm

When I started this topic I was just wondering since the design was quite similar to the P-38. Now I've found out that most people believe that the P-38 was designed individually with no influence from the G-1.
After reading so much about the G-1 and the air activities in 10 - 14 may 1940 I found a website of a foundation that is rebuilding a G-1 (which is very hard because all drawings are lost from Fokker). I found two nice looking patches and I decided to buy them. The picture is posted below so you can admire them aswell Smile


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PostSubject: Re: Lockhead P-38 based on a Dutch design?   Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:55 am

damn, nice patches van. me likey the right one
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